A Q&A with the Directors of Henry Louis Gates' 'Black and Jewish America: An Interwoven History'

The latest series from PBS stalwart and scholar Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is Black and Jewish America: An Interwoven History, which traces the complex relationship between two groups forged through shared struggles over four parts, Tuesdays at 8:00 pm beginning February 3 on WTTW or via the PBS app. 

“Across history, Jews have been mocked and feared, blamed and banished, envied and imitated – and so have Black people,” Dr. Gates says in the show. “And we share something else as well: a duty to keep fighting hatred, wherever it shows up.”

We spoke to executive producers and directors Phil Bertelsen and Sara Wolitzky about the program.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

What is the origin of this series?

Sara Wolitzky: I think Dr. Gates really started thinking about it in earnest after [the 2017 white supremacist rally in] Charlottesville and seeing this moment of both very obvious anti-Jewish hatred and anti-Black racism and the resurgence of this white nationalism in this country. Charlottesville was on the heels of the [2015] massacre at Mother Emanuel [African Methodist Episcopal Church] in Charleston, and followed by the Tree of Life [synagogue] shooting in Pittsburgh [in 2018]. This white nationalism that has always had these two groups in its crosshairs was surging. 

It just felt like an important moment to share a long history of connection and entanglement of Blacks and Jews that I think was more prominent to folks of his generation living through the Civil Rights movement and seeing that peak of joint activism. It felt like a good moment to excavate that relationship in a way that was not just celebratory but honest, and look at how the key moments are a quintessentially American story – how they shaped America, where the tensions come from, and how it works best.

Phil Bertelsen: How did we get here? The essential question. 

Wolitzky: One obvious fact is that we do need each other, and the country needs us.

In the years since the events you referenced and since you started working on this, do you feel the series has become more important, especially since the October 7th attack on Israel by Hamas and Israel’s subsequent invasion of Gaza?

Bertelsen: The sad truth is, as old as those events may be, the series has never been more relevant. 

Wolitzky: I think also more relevant because of those October 7th events, because that became the latest of a series of flash points and difficult moments that have challenged the sense of connection or potential for unity between these groups. In a way, I think it's even more valuable, because part of what this series is exploring is, how do you survive the tensions and the things that tend to pit people against each other. How do you find solidarity across differences of opinion and still come together in coalition around the things you value?

It offers an interesting window into whiteness as well. 

Bertelsen: While we have these shared values and even experiences of oppression, that is a fundamental difference. Black people will never experience whiteness, and therefore there's a built-in differential between the two groups, regardless of the solidarity that they seek. 

Wolitzky: For Jewish people in America, whether they are considered white fluctuates over time, and their access is given and revoked, and it's always sort of conditional. That helps them recognize the importance of the idea that nobody is free until everybody is free, which becomes the dominating civil rights era idea. 

There’s also a cultural connection between the two groups, for example the Jewish-run Chess Records in Chicago, which released influential blues records by Black musicians.

Bertelsen: We look at jazz in particular: we talk about the Great American Songbook and the influence of Jewish composers on jazz music; also, the confluence of their efforts creatively and from a business standpoint. We talk about Louis Armstrong and his relationship to his longtime manager. We look at early Hollywood and the foundational figures, who were largely Jewish immigrants, who basically built entertainment, and how that impacted Black people and how Black culture impacted that. 

You also cover the relationship between the Chicago philanthropist Julius Rosenwald and Booker T. Washington, out of which came thousands of schools for Southern Black children.

Bertelsen: The whole series is full of these lesser-known stories. The best way I can describe this series is as a sort of dual biography. I'm just fascinated by the idea that at the same time Columbus was sailing the ocean blue [in 1492] the Jews were getting kicked out of Spain. History is prologue, and to be doing this series in this moment has been so satisfying, frustrating, maddening, and illuminating at the same time. We've been here before. And I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned that speak directly to this current climate.  

Are there any lessons you took away from working on this?

Wolitzky: A lot of what we try to point to in the series is on the level of individual relationships. There’s a story of a Jewish housewife, Esther Brown, in the suburbs of Kansas City, who found out through her maid about a Black school that was super underfunded and helped them fight to desegregate the schools in the town. The link between Julius Rosenwald and Booker T. Washington comes about because of the connection and respect between these two men, or Louis Armstrong and Joe Glaser. It’s a good reminder that it all starts at that level of individual human connection. The more direct relationships we build in our lives and our communities, the better.

Bertelsen: We have to have the difficult conversation. I think a lot of times, because of the discomfort that comes from the difficult conversation, we spend more time avoiding it than engaging in it. You need to engage in the conversation about difference and what shared values you have and start from there.